People First Construction - Stephanie Roldan

Felipe Engineer  0:04  
Welcome to the EBFC show, the easier better for construction podcast. I'm your host, Felipe Engineer Manriquez. This show is all about the business of construction.

Today's episode is sponsored by the lean construction Institute. LCI is working to lead the building industry in transforming its practices and culture. Its vision is to create a healthy and thriving industry that delivers outstanding project outcomes every time for everyone join me and many others from the lean design and construction community at their 22nd annual Congress. It is being held virtually this year, the week of October 19. Our theme is the ABCs of lean transformation through actions, best practices and coaching. Check the show notes for more information. Thank you, LCI. Now to the show.

Stephanie Roldan  1:10  
And here's the thing, too, is I think these tools were meant for us to be collaborative. And the unfortunate thing is, when it does not have a contractual component, right, that says that we're all in the box together. I think that's when we fall in that trap, Philippe, right, which is, you're still managing total contract style that says, You're in control, you have all the risk.

Felipe Engineer  1:34  
As soon as you miss a date I'm sending you a letter putting on a list. So if I don't, then I can't use the rest of my contract to motivate you to finish.

Stephanie Roldan  1:43  
Yes. Right. And in the same token, you're probably not likely to accept our help. Because if it doesn't go well, once again, you can't hold us accountable. And on the on the same token, you're not incentivized to necessarily clear that Roadblock, because you can just hold up the schedule and say, here's the schedule, you signed the line, hope you can make it No, I didn't impact you any hope you can prove if we did impact you that we impacted you. And often merry way we go, right.

Felipe Engineer  2:09  
And the funny thing about all that is that I've actually said this out loud to folks, and you might have never, ever heard it. And I said trade partners don't make more money by taking longer to finish the contract scope. That's right. But I've seen people have fights about I need two weeks to get this done. No, you only get one week. You don't get paid more to take longer.

Stephanie Roldan  2:35  
Yeah, you get paid for the the unit that you sold, right that exactly included in your estimate. And I mean, it's an interesting thing to like, even when we talk about productivity, right, Philippe. I tell people all the time, I am not trying to hold people accountable to productivity, because I want to measure you anyway. The reason why we have down accountability is because we only sold something for so much, right? So you know, we're not getting paid to infinity. And so if you're struggling right now, you probably really need to say something, because we can't fix it. If you don't say anything. And, and I really believe that when we get to. And I and I say this all the time to people, when I'm talking about productivity, I say, I know for a fact, you did not drive here today to get to the gate, to walk in the gate. And for me to put every obstacle in your way to having a productive eight hours in this environment. I know that you did it. You didn't do that. Right? You did not do that.

Felipe Engineer  3:34  
I've never had a craftsperson that has had that attitude.

Stephanie Roldan  3:37  
That's right.

Felipe Engineer  3:38  
That's right. That was me. Me trade. So happy to have my very special guest today. His Steph Roldan stuff, you'd go ahead and introduce yourself. Yep.

Stephanie Roldan  3:48  
So my name is Stephanie Roldan. I've been in the industry probably 21 years started as an apprentice in the field, electrician by trade, and then worked my way up through through my organization. Alright, that's good. This is about this is about you and me. races. This is you know, togetherness. Crebear share.

Felipe Engineer  4:09  
That's right. Wonder Twin Powers Activate. My sister from another mother?

Stephanie Roldan  4:16  
That's right. You know, I was just thinking about that. Philippe, when I think about, like, what really brings me joy in the work that I do and, and how it's really about whether or not the relationships we build, feel like that, right? Like, we can look outwardly different, right? Oh, yeah. But inside, did we make a heart connection that ties us together and feels like there's something there? That is just I mean, it's probably the human connection, right? But just something there that makes you feel like he could be a brother from another mother. Right. And I even said that thinking about like, people, people that I work with on a regular everyday basis and shared experiences and the stories that we've told and you know, the hangouts and the barbecues and all these things that we've done, right?

Felipe Engineer  5:03  
I just think those just go COVID. 

Stephanie Roldan  5:05  
Yeah, yeah. Right.

I mean, you just, you just think about that, right? And it's like, I don't even know how we came to be right? In like the grand scheme of how would have all the millions and millions of people in this world? How would we bump into each other? have something in common similarities, some background and then be able to develop a relationship that lasts? No, how do we meet somewhere in Phoenix? Yeah. And then develop a relationship and then and then have roles within our companies that are so similar, right?

Felipe Engineer  5:39  
Almost identical.

Stephanie Roldan  5:40  
Almost identical, right? And, and you have a passion towards that research end of it, right? Like, you bring me a lot of great knowledge from there. But But what I what really fuels me is that people part, right, and then I bring that aspect of, why are we doing this? Are we talking about, you know, core values? Are we talking about principles? Are we aligning people towards their mission and their purpose and all that, and then it's like, Okay, once we do that, then you're like, hey, Steph, it's time to bring this next part and help fuel them to be even greater, right. So I find that incredibly interesting how it's just, you know, that chance meeting right at a table where we sit down for breakfast, and it's like, complete strangers. But now you think, random right now you think, man, they were always destined to be together? Right?

Felipe Engineer  6:25  
Exactly. Yeah, we're gonna, it was inevitable that we were going to work together.

Stephanie Roldan  6:29  
That's right. And, and, and that we complement each other, right? different passions for the work that we do, just creating this whole, like, sort of worldly view of what we're trying to do when it comes to lean.

Felipe Engineer  6:42  
I even look at the LCI Scrum deck, and it's, you're on the front cover of it. I don't even know that. No, I don't know. I'll show a picture of it. Like right here so that people can see like, you're you're on the cover of that deck because you have to make it happen.

Stephanie Roldan  6:58  
Yeah. No, that's cool. Yeah, I just it's it's really incredible when you think about that, right? And the work that we do.

Felipe Engineer  7:09  
I want to definitely say thank you for coming out to the show. Stephanie. You like Stephanie I know anyone calls you Steph.

Stephanie Roldan  7:17  
Everyone. Listen, everyone. Why don't you call me Steph. Everyone was like, it was a like my homie circle calls me Steph.

Felipe Engineer  7:25  
Well, then you got to pull me into the circle, outside of the circle. 

Stephanie Roldan  7:29  
No, I think you think you're on the outside of the circle. But you're in the circle, buddy. Okay, you can go with stuff. Yeah, no, that's how that's how generally speaking, I know if, if, if one I've made the attempt to make you feel welcome. Oh, y'all know that you staff? And if? And I have I haven't night you're still on? Stephanie. You know, that was not intentional. 

Felipe Engineer  7:52  
That was just, I've just graduated to Steph today.

Stephanie Roldan  7:57  
That's right. It took COVID for you to get in the staff circle. today. Yeah. And, you know, had the fortune to meet Felipe in an industry event. And we've been developing a relationship ever since, um, you know, I really focus my intention, my effort, my energy around, how do we respect people and tradespeople, get the work that we need to get done done? And then really start focusing on how does the trades become, you know, that, that vocation that is, you know, interesting and desirable and attractive to people? You know, we really think about the history of trades. This was once something that people were artisans about, right, you look at, if you look at the monument sistent day, the crafts work that went into it, probably the love energy, joy that went into that what, you know, how do we get back to that? You know, obviously, some were built in unfavorable conditions. And again, right, we are looking at 2020, where some of those unfavorable conditions are, are picking back up, right. So how do we do that? racial equality work? How do we, how do we bring back and bring forward the good parts? Right? So when I look back at or I look to Rosen in, right, we have a, we have a different origin story that a lot of construction companies delete, they were started by immigrants who found a space in a place where they could exist, right? Just starting with, hey, you know, we want to service the motors and the irrigation fields. How can we turn that into a business? They even changed their name to assimilate, right, get a more English sounding name to build their business? And so here we are, with rosendin. Right, trying to return back to our heritage with how do we create the inclusive, you know, environment so that people feel like they belong, and that they can join us on this journey. And, you know, like most, you know, construction companies, I would say, along the way through growth, right. The resources sort of don't look the same. Same way they did in 1918. And so they don't, they've changed. And so everyone needs to find a space place, and a place to belong. And that's what we're about.

Felipe Engineer  10:10  
And I remember we went to that lcis conference last year in Texas, right? It was Texas last year. Yep. All the years are starting to blend together. And I was, I was coming back from an event after dinner, and one of the hotels walking somebody to their hotel. And they're like, six rosendin. foreman, like, just bumped into me in the lobby. And they recognize me from something I don't even remember when we started talking. And one of the guys, and I can't remember his name, it's just been too long. But he was I think he had come from Chicago, which is where I grew up. And right away, we just started chatting like instant connection, super easy to talk to. Very professional. I mean, a lot of tattoos on some of them. But that's just to be expected. Right?

Stephanie Roldan  10:56  
Hey, that's, that is the you know, if you don't have a tattoo, you're the weirdo. Now, Felipe. So I'm an outlier. I don't have any artwork or ink.

Felipe Engineer  11:05  
I'm just too picky. I just can't decide, you know, what I'm going to live with? Because I changed my mind.

Stephanie Roldan  11:10  
Hey, I don't know. I don't know what my fear is. But I just feel like, that's not really it's really not my thing. But, you know, my co worker, Matt, man, he's got some some great tattoos. And I know the people that have them, right? They all tell a story. And it's, it's, it's fantastic. When you sit down with a person, and they tell you, Hey, I did this one. And you remember, my father or I did this because, you know, it tells their life story. And it's, it's it's very interesting to sort of see that that life roadmap. That's it's interesting that you bring up that we took foreman. Right. And I think that is I think, when we think about how we can influence, you know, change in the way that we do work. It is it is largely with that group, right? The the leaders who lead the rest, you know, weren't Aesop organizations or our owners own, you know, people in that umbrella on the company. And but I think it's that, that ability to sort of have a different way that we do business where we genuinely care and love the people who work with us, right? Yes, allows us to bring in foreman and journeymen and apprentices, right and say, Hey, listen along the way, you know, we're gonna grow you, you're gonna continue to we're, you know, we're about building people here. And part of that is that experience at LCI, right, then being able to see what are other companies doing really well? How are they performing? How are they collaborating? And, and developing relationships that one day, I bet we will see someone that we met at LCI on a job site and will say, you remember when we saw each other there? Let's try some of that really great stuff on this job. 

Felipe Engineer  12:44  
No, that's a great point. And the foreman that you brought, we're excited to be there. I mean, really excited, really engaged. And I, I was lucky enough to bump into people, it does some of the different events during the day, like I kind of float in and out of so many different things. And I'd see your crew out there at, you know, different learning events and very engaged with the instructors. So I was like, that's a testament to the type of learning culture that rosendin has. So to my hat to you guys for thank you for developing that and bringing that to the to that type of event.

Stephanie Roldan  13:17  
Yeah, I mean, the thing about them being so engaged to Lee Bay, is that the way that we find the individuals get to go to LCI, right? It's it's open to anyone within the company. And what we do is we run campaigns all year long. And we say if you have a continuous improvement ideas, submit them. And whoever has submitted the most within a month is our is our winner, basically, for that for that month. Right? So, so that's, yeah, so Exactly. So that's, so they're already doing the improvements. So they're already passionate about it, right. And so that's how we get that momentum in that fuel. And then they go to classes, and they're inspired by others. And we'll be out there like, midnight, one o'clock in the morning, still talking about, how are we going to make our company better, like I saw this, and I saw that how do we actually bring this change to the company, right? And, you know, we close out the event by one of the lean trainers really saying, Hey, thank you, everybody, for joining us. Remember, you owe us three key takeaways, what what improvement project you're going to bring to the company? And what support Do you need. And so we continue to feel that so that ideas don't get lost after you know, we attend this and sort of the conference Hi, leaves, right? And we have that touch point that keeps bringing more and more things to the forefront and empowers them to go back to their teams and say, hey, I want to try this, but I'm gonna need you you and you probably to help me.

Felipe Engineer  14:38  
Right. And that's one of the interesting things about this event over others. And this is by no way shameless plugging for for LCI, but I've been to many other types of conferences and usually when the conference is over, people scatter and that these like when this is over, we all stay talking to each other. way past when we should to the point where it becomes dangerous for us to wake up and attend the next day's events.

Stephanie Roldan  15:07  
It's very true.

Felipe Engineer  15:09  
Yeah, I've even seen some LCI board members, you know, getting within four hours of the next morning's event starting off.

Stephanie Roldan  15:17  
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, because it is the one week where I feel the most tired. After like, it's just it's, it's, it's one being awake with our like minded friends. Right? So this work, change work is hard. Right? And, and depending on how the years going, what the initiative is, what it is you're trying to do, you start to run out of steam, right? And then you get with other people, and they just reignite you, right? It's like, oh, I could I could do it. They're doing this, maybe I just make one small change. And I'm back on the horse, right. And so you get fuel to do that. And then all of a sudden, you've got sort of your group around you saying, Hey, I saw Felipe do this. And I've seen rich do that, and this and that. And so then they're like, sort of getting you even more hyped up right before before the end of the week is like, I don't know, if you've slept. I don't even know if you've ate. But all you know, is you have more energy than you had when you came into the fact.

Felipe Engineer  16:17  
Right. That's a fact. Yeah, that's and that's my biggest complaint all the time is that there isn't enough time for us to actually make those connections outside of the events. Because so much does happen in a year.

Stephanie Roldan  16:30  
Yes.

Felipe Engineer  16:31  
You just put you on the spot. What's, uh, what was a surprising takeaway that one of the foremen had after having that experience?

Stephanie Roldan  16:39  
So one of the surprising takeaways is really around. You know, we talk about three week planning, right, and we do it a lot. It's aligned with the last planner system. But what we don't do really well is one communicating with our own people what that plan actually looks like, right? So he's built this plan. He's not he's not necessarily aligning his crew to the plan. Yeah. So when it doesn't go, Well, he hasn't communicated anything downstream. So they don't know that they're not achieving. Right. So yeah, we're getting frustrated, and there's no achievement. It's very hard to keep people motivated. Right. And the other thing, too, is that because there is sort of, I would say, differing experience levels in both my company, your company as a whole, right? Sure. You know, we're all trying to build the airplane while it's in the air.

Felipe Engineer  17:35  
Yeah, that's a good analogy.

Stephanie Roldan  17:36  
Right? We're all trying to build this while we're flying. We have taken and adapted the last planner system, which is why we call it pool planning and rosendin. Because sometimes we don't get the opportunity, I'm gonna say we don't get the opportunity to actually have the sum of all parts.

Felipe Engineer  17:55  
Right. It's good some of it.

Stephanie Roldan  17:56  
We just get some of it. And we have to all ecard it. And it's and he said, it's, it's unfortunate, because you can see the value that having that on your job site would do with opening the communication, the collaboration, the teamwork. But the lack of experience in implementing that, across what we are probably 1000s of construction projects that are happening annually.

Felipe Engineer  18:20  
Yes.

Stephanie Roldan  18:20  
It doesn't allow us to get to all of them. Right. You and I both know

Felipe Engineer  18:24  
That good little nerd that I am I prepared today for you. And that's a good segue, like our industry in the United States alone, is worth almost $3 trillion a year in projects, 3 trillion is done 1000s of projects, for sure. Yes.

Stephanie Roldan  18:40  
Yep. And, you know, I, I focus far less, I'll be honest, I focus far less internally on teaching my teams, the tools, or the academic side of lean, because I know the general contractors, depending on where we are in the process are going to either have something adapted, or they're going to be purists, one of the two, right. And so just letting my teams have the basic knowledge is usually the best. And instead focusing on preparing them as people to enter into that environment is probably where the our better effort is spent within our organization. Because it takes an entire mind shift. And the other thing too, is that they need to be prepared that as as we actually make the mind shift, and we believe we're gonna make the change, that it's still there's still the human condition, and so some backsliding might happen. And so then, rather than just letting up off the gas altogether, you know, let's just slowly let off a little bit off but let's keep trying to chug along right You and I both know that there's always those stories of well, I thought this lien was supposed to be so much better than these other construction projects. And this one sucked as bad as all the others, right and usually, and usually that is not, that is not the tools. fault. It's usually a people problem, right? It's, it's always People, right? And how did we respect each other?

Felipe Engineer  20:03  
Or not?

Stephanie Roldan  20:04  
Yeah, or not? How did we, you know, communicate all those things, right?

Felipe Engineer  20:09  
I was talking to a good friend of mine, you'll appreciate this. And she told me, she said, You can almost see it in two different ways. You can see that some, some projects as I typically unload a lot of stories on my poor friend. And she said, your stories are either in two categories, one respect for people existed as part of the team culture or, or there was a clear disrespect for people as part of the team culture.

Stephanie Roldan  20:37  
Culture is the key, right? fleabay culture, culture is frankly, the key and everything. Right? Yes. When, when we when I first started down this journey of really having the the corporate role, right, so I started on a on a confidential client, a semiconductor client, everyone can figure out all that is, yeah, we all know who it is right?

Felipe Engineer  20:59  
They're powering my computer right now. Yeah.

Stephanie Roldan  21:02  
So you know, they had they went into IPD. With an IFA, right? We had our little experiments initially, where we were just trying things out until the IFA came into play. behaviors didn't really change. And we know we know, through all the studies that that's true.

Felipe Engineer  21:18  
All the non lean nerds, IFA is integrated form of agreement,

Stephanie Roldan  21:22  
Right, which means we're all parties to what is at risk and what is to be gained. Right. 

Felipe Engineer  21:29  
So if you and I are in a team, and I'm the GC, my profit is tied to your profit, and yours is tied to mine.

Stephanie Roldan  21:34  
Yep. And my bad decisions are tied to you.

Felipe Engineer  21:38  
And my random good decisions are tied to you.

Stephanie Roldan  21:41  
Okay, exactly. Right. And yeah, and vice versa. Right. So, but it makes you It makes you play the game differently, right. a different set is a different set of rules, a different ways that you might make decisions. And so out of that, I thought, well, you know, what can we do? For all of our projects, all of our people, that would give them a sense of that better way to do construction.

Felipe Engineer  22:05  
You were there on that job boots on the ground? It's turning tool tools in hand before you flipped over to your new role.

Stephanie Roldan  22:13  
Yep, absolutely. Yep. So I was there. When we and I was there, even before we had an in, you know, the integrated form of agreement in place, we were still doing old contracting strategy, and they wanted the last planner system, and the whole belief, believe in trust us, it's going to change way and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna believe in trust you, I'm gonna believe in trust you. And, and, you know, it sort of created the seedlings, the ability to learn all of that stuff. But it took, you know, some contract and some other stuff to help, but their goal was that they needed to save 30% on their program, or they weren't gonna be able to build it. And the truth is, is we need them to build it as as much for themselves as we need them to build it for the people in the families that we take care of. Right. So there has to be some trust there. That if I can make the 30% happy happened for you, then I can keep the hundreds of families that work for us employed in working, right. So we went down down that road with them. We learned a lot about the tools we did in fact meet their requirements, big fat, you know, fancy check that they gave us to celebrate, oversized check too. Yes, it was. Yeah, it's in the it's in the office here in Tempe. Oh, very cool. Probably as tall as I am. But yeah, we, we got the oversized check to celebrate the moment, you know, and we're still working out there. Today, right, developing that relationship. But then I thought, well, is there anything from that type of environment that can really bring across the entire company, right, bringing back you know, I one day want to be able to walk up to someone in the field and you know, you get glimpses occasionally but truly see someone just like having that awesome day cuz I can think about the one or two really awesome days in my career of like installing in the field, right. And I know exactly how much I did. How much above the standard that was how I felt that the end how I felt when the bet was if you can put 900 feet of conduit in my god cheated to the Rex already up. So 900 feet of conduit in the day. I'll get you guys pizza for lunch. Right? Yeah. And, and just knowing that somebody appreciated my effort, right. And so I thought, Well, how do we do that? on a grand scale? How do we start doing that as a way of our life here? And, you know, I started down that track. And then I realized, you know, the core values here, don't necessarily say that and i and i sent just the Hey, what's, you know, what's the deal with this? got quiet night and I let it be right, sure. But behind the scenes, the executives took that pretty serious Philippe and probably three years ago, our course value is I want to say It was probably about three years ago, our core values actually, were changed to align much more with, you know, with our lean transformation in our journey that we're on. So we have three of them, we have three of them that are really around the respect for people, and then two of them that are really around continuous improvement. So we care we share we listen our people once Nice. Yeah. And then our two around continuous improvement are we innovating we Excel? And so when I really think about it, really did we Excel is kind of a additive, right? You do those first four, you'll get that fifth one. So yeah, so they really dug into that. We've, you know, been rebranding re calibrating continuously talking about it. I think, ultimately, that changed three years ago that from from leadership, yesterday, it does not like just yesterday. But that that foresight to do that, then, I think is actually what's allowing us to strive right now. Because we've we've heavily during this COVID-19 time really leaned into we care, and what does that mean to us? Right? What are we doing around that? Right? And? And in that vein, right, you know, we recently launched the rosendin Foundation, right? It's a big deal.

Felipe Engineer  26:15  
It is, it is a big deal.

Stephanie Roldan  26:17  
And it's a labor of love from quite a few people, we have a leadership academy here, and what the Closeout project is fully Bay's that you're asked to find a corporate problem or opportunity that you'd like to solve, okay, and we ask them that they use a three problem solving, that they really dig into what's the root cause that they really give us a great implementation plan, and that they see it through, right. And the one that came up was at the end of the last year was, we don't have a foundation, we do a really a lot of great work within our company. But we don't really have a way that shows how intentional we are about that. And so this group got us all the way through, here's, here's what we think, here's how we get started. here's, here's all the paperwork you got to do to get it done. Some of those people are now on the board appointed to our board, because, you know, it was their hard work, it was their dream, and they brought it to life.

Felipe Engineer  27:20  
That's the first post on LinkedIn. And right away, I wanted to call you, but our schedules didn't allow for it. I had to wait until now.

Stephanie Roldan  27:27  
We're really, we're really excited. Um, and, you know, the sad thing about it is is that is that a foundation like that has to exist, right? when you really think about it, the fact that we have to do that good work to help people right now. And probably will have to do it for all of time, right? I mean, our thoughts are, build it big, have an endowment do good work for for the same 100 years. And beyond that we've existed as rosendin Electric, right. So

Felipe Engineer  27:54  
I think it's a part of that is just the fact that, as far as I can tell, every human being is born with amnesia. Like, everybody just comes in blank. So you need people that have had some experiences to guide and learn and, and coach and be available and show people alternate ways. So I applaud the foundation, that's a really good thing to do. And I'm excited that you're, you're going to have a say in how grants are allocated as well.

Stephanie Roldan  28:20  
Yep. So and that was really important to me to Philippe how we support the communities and, you know, we actually have to grant we're gonna have to grant cycles that are first sort of that everyday work, people putting in the heart energy, our focus areas around emotional health, nutritional health and occupational health right now. Obviously, that was determined, because when you look at the high suicide rate within construction, that's largely people's emotional health. Right? And, and we need whole people to be able to show up every day. And we need to get beyond this belief that if you say you need help, or you're struggling, that it's a weakness, right? I don't I don't. I mean, I've had an email come in my inbox. from somebody that I was supporting, I was trying to help them, just recalibrate and get back to it right, slowly. You know, the usual construction story happens, where it's like, oh, they're all of a sudden a crappy worker, or they're on the they're on booze, or they're on drugs or any number thing, right? Well, people are balancing out their medications. weird stuff happens, right? But to give someone the grace to say, Listen, I'm going to I'm going to help you. You need time, don't worry about when you're coming in clocking in, let's just be fair about the effort we're, we're we're expanding and that you're expanding to and they give them that time to heal. Right. And it's not usual within construction for us to take that time right now, or, or to address it in that way. But I just think back even on my apprenticeship, where I knew that people were just struggling as human beings and then you'd find out, you know, they took their own life or they were found or it's not a it's not Good thing, and I think to ignore the fact that it's real is not helping anyone right now. It does not. And so we're putting a lot of effort. You know, we sent out a grant, just recently in the amount of 2500, towards an organization that helps with, you know, mental health awareness within construction. The, you know, we had nutritional health very early on through COVID-19, when the food banks were just getting exhausted. And the next one that we're really going to be focused on, is on domestic violence and child abuse fleabay. Because what we're what we know is that with kids that have not been to school in a very long time, in some areas since March of last year, right? teachers do some of that heavy lifting, with recognition of conditions at home malnutrition, you know, physical and mental abuse. And so, those organizations really need our support right now. Because some kids still aren't coming back, right. And they don't all have, you know, super supportive homes, that they're sitting in trying to do their, their virtual school and right, so we don't, they don't and so we're gonna we're gonna put some work we're gonna put some support into that, probably in August are really focused on making sure we can get something out there into our communities soon. 

Felipe Engineer  31:17  
No, it's really good. It makes a huge difference. I've got family members that that taught kindergarten, and definitely right, nailing it. They they see things that everyday people don't pick up on.

Stephanie Roldan  31:30  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Felipe Engineer  31:32  
And the kids depend on that as part of their extended support system.

Stephanie Roldan  31:36  
Yeah. They, I mean, they, they depend on it to build their village, right? whether whether we know it or not. Children are resilient, and they'll find people who can love and care for them. Right. And usually, it happens to be a teacher, right? Everybody has that teacher that saw something special in them and tell that story, right? So recognizing that and getting some support out to the organizations that can help those and provide resources is important. Know that the foundation is very promising. Yeah. And the great thing about is the foundation, not only was it created by people who had a passion for it within our own organization, right. And we really showed that if you empower people, and you respect their thoughts, and and what they can bring to the table, right, that discretionary effort, Philippe they'll really bring it right. But you got to be an organization that wants to engage your people that wants to empower them that wants to respect their thoughts that once you don't I mean, it doesn't come by itself, right?

Felipe Engineer  32:38  
No, it doesn't. I was doing a talk with some folks on a large project team. And we were talking about challenges with trying to do these different ways of building and I said, you know, shockingly, the principle of lean that I had the most trouble with is respect for people. Like, even me, and I was just telling everybody, it is very challenging. It's, it's different. You can't You can't ever come at people like as if they're broken, and they need to be fixed. That's not respecting them. And it doesn't engage people to want to do more. And like you said, that discretionary effort, like, you're going to get paid to do the job, if you do, you know, to the x degree. But when you engage people, they just go way beyond where the targets are put.

Stephanie Roldan  33:23  
Yeah, exactly. Right. I mean, I mean, when you think about it, you know, in today's sort of new climate, we're in right, negotiating both politics, you know, racial equality, you know, gender parity, all of those things, economic equality, right. fleabay. When you think about all of those things that are sort of bottling in and coming up to the surface, they all stem from that one thing, respect for people. And so when you are intentional about what that looks like, right, and how you're going to tackle it within your company. It changes it changes everything, right? I think I recently saw, you know, you get the analogies, right. And it says, Well, you know, diversity is being invited to the dance, right? And inclusion is being asked to dance and belonging is dancing like nobody's watching.

Felipe Engineer  34:18  
Right. Wow. It's a good analogy. 

Stephanie Roldan  34:21  
Yeah, and and we need to get to that belonging space, right? and accepting people for what they bring every single day and finding the right fit for them. Right, Felipe? I mean, cuz here's the here's an interesting thing that has happened to both you and I, right. We have business units within our company, right? Usually the prestigious is assigned to the people who run the biggest business units.

Felipe Engineer  34:49  
Right? That's a fact. That's total truth.

Stephanie Roldan  34:53  
Right? But here's the thing is, even when I'm offered that opportunity, it's not the company not giving me the opportunity, because They have, right so 100% they're supporting me get into to what is the normal bias which is getting to the top. And this is the track that we know, right? But I am intentional about the opportunities that I take. Because I know that in that I won't be the best Stephanie that they need me to be. I my talent profile in that the behaviors that I once exhibited, probably as a project manager, and I exhibited all the usuals I'll be honest, until, until, you know, 678 years ago, Philippe, where I ended up on a job that was finally gonna use some collaborative methods. I was the stereotypical project manager just like everyone else, right?

Felipe Engineer  35:45  
I had a naughty list.

Stephanie Roldan  35:46  
Yeah. And if I had to send that missile of an email, I would send the missile and I would just worry about what happened later. Right. But, but it's not who I want to be. Philippe, right. And so when I think about what I need to do for this company, the seat I'm sitting in is where I need to lead from.

Felipe Engineer  36:09  
Right? You and I've talked about this many times span of control, stick your arms out, what can you get your arms around? And, you know, in the position, you're in your arms go way further?

Stephanie Roldan  36:19  
Yes, yeah. Yep. And they go way further. And the great thing is, is that recently, right, senior leadership has given me an opportunity to flourish, right and get some really great projects started, get some momentum behind them, build the teams that needed to be built to, to make and for us to excel and innovate around them. So we're doing the right things here. But it also means we look a little bit weird, probably to the outside world of construction, I told people that I said one day, we're going to be in the spot that we want to be and when you look around, you better be prepared to look weird. Because that's it's just inevitable. When I first took this role, I had a great mentor who said, because he said you can change one job, you can run one really great job. Or you can change them all. Huh. And I'm after changing them all, Felipe.

Felipe Engineer  37:15  
Have a good mentor.

Stephanie Roldan  37:16  
Yeah, I'm after changing them all. And, and then ultimately, the decision was mine. He said, for once in your career, I don't want you to make a decision in the best interest of rosendin I want you to make a decision on what's best for Stephanie.

Felipe Engineer  37:32  
Or stuff as you're known by your staff.

Stephanie Roldan  37:34  
I'm known. So they probably did say Steph.

Felipe Engineer  37:36  
Right? I would hope your mentor can design Steph basis with you.

Stephanie Roldan  37:39  
Their on their on the Steph basis. But right so so and that's, and that's ultimately felipa where I've been in the last five years, which is, you know, the truth be known is a Hispanic girl from south Phoenix is making more money than she ever thought she would. Right? Right. Kids are fine. Husband's great, all of that stuff. So I don't need to make money decisions. I need to make passion and purpose and purpose decisions now.

Felipe Engineer  38:07  
Money just gonna show up as a side effect.

Stephanie Roldan  38:09  
It is and and the truth is really bad is if I don't finish my career, and I fully plan on it with Rosen in it, but if I don't finish my career, having made the change, I don't think I'll have one. And so making the change is far more important probably than being incentivized at this point. Sure, as a byproduct, I'll be incentivized, I'm sure right, I'll earn what needs to be earned. But I'm on that I'm on that masslive hierarchy of needs. At this point.

Felipe Engineer  38:42  
I need self actualization.

Stephanie Roldan  38:44  
I'm headed towards self actualization, baby. That's, I mean, that's, that's where I want to be. Right, all the other stuff. This company has taken care of that, you know, above and beyond what my expectations would have been. Right. I, I came into an Aesop culture without even knowing I came into any culture, because I'll be honest, when I first came here, I just came here because the person who was leading the organization was somebody I had faith in and I believed in. That's why I came. Right. And, and I didn't know that, you know, there was an ownership part of it or whatever. I just knew that we were after treating people fairly. We believed in our IBEW culture, right, which is where I'm trained from. I'm a former IBEW member, right. So I knew that we believed in that model of respecting labor, allowing them to negotiate the deals that are fair to them in the communities that they serve and live in. Right. So I knew that about the company. And I knew that I was following a good person, but I didn't know what the reward system was for the actual company right? And now having I sit on the trustees right now, having spent some time looking at it, doing research about what it does for, you know, fairness and equality right and, and, frankly, truthfully, building Well for people, right, so you can look at Black people of color, and indigenous, and they've got 30% more retirement built than Nani South companies. Right? So when you're thinking about what benefits does this do to racial equality? Well, we can get you 30%. Closer, right? Yes. When you look at, you know, even single mothers, there's an improvement off of, from, you know, Nani SOC companies there. And the truth is, is just owning a stake in the work that you produce in and of itself fully Bay is rewarding, right skin in the game skin in the game, right. And because we have skin in the game, we get to build a culture that is around our core values. And our beliefs then help another organization, the IBEW our partners, also meet the intent of what they're trying to do. Right. They're trying to build great families, they're trying to educate individuals, they're trying to attract people to the trades. And because we believe in what we believe in, we support that we fund that. You know, we're fair at the negotiation table, you know, all of those things, right? manifests themselves out of the culture that we've built here.

Felipe Engineer  41:15  
No, perfect. That's alignment. Yes. Yeah. People First, which is what First, we wanted to make sure we hit on in this episode, the people first part of lean, but often overlooked part, so hung up on the tools.

Stephanie Roldan  41:30  
You know, it's it's very true, Philippe, I mean, we say, we and here's the thing, we not only say we know, we have the research that says we need to spend more time with each other, and learning about each other as people. And that of a project might be 345 days of the entire project we spend with each other. And then we say, go to work, and we spend months with each other. And we never come back as people. And we think that barbecue lunches for safety, and all of these visual things are going to do it. But that's not getting deep to who we are as people. And that's not to say that a recognition at lunch isn't good every once in a while or that we shouldn't have it. I absolutely agree that, but it doesn't speak to the heart bleed back.

Felipe Engineer  42:14  
Yeah, those that intentional partner in the beginning, I can't tell you how many jobs I've been a part of where people a year into it, two years into it, don't know what the person to their left does, outside of work, or what their main role on this project is. And they sometimes we just default into someone's title. And we think that that's what they do. But it's not, it's almost always not.

Stephanie Roldan  42:40  
It's almost always not. And we don't ask how do I help you? Or do you need help? Right? And you and I've sat on jobs where somebody is one poor person is like burning the midnight oil. Right? And it's like, why is that? One person? feeling like they're shouldering all of this? Is there no part of it that we play in it, that could assist them help them? I'm sure they have other things they'd like to do with their time. If if they haven't yet built the family? I'm sure they'd like to at least eat, drink and use the restroom. Right? And but this person is just, you know, and then we wonder why it is they'll say later that they hate construction, it's like, because we didn't see you. We just left you there by yourself. Right. And I don't think it's healthy. I mean, I was one of the I was, I was a perfect example of a person who thought that the more energy I put into a project, the better outcome I would get. And the truth is, is I would actually get a worse outcome, Felipe, I would be a crappy person, I would not be paying attention to my family at home. Everyone was getting the short end of the stick, including myself, right. You know, I don't know if I shared the story with you. But I'm pretty I'm pretty sure I did. But, you know, even around the time when I first started taking this role on, I was sort of shouldering these two responsibilities, still wrapping up being a project manager on a large job, and then sort of making this transition. On top of that I was nine weeks pregnant at the time, I had my first mini stroke at nine weeks pregnant, trying to wrap up two things and get something started.

Felipe Engineer  44:21  
Scary. That's a lot. You're burdening a lot.

Stephanie Roldan  44:24  
Yeah. And you know, and it's just a sign to slow down, right. And the problem is, none of us in construction will admit we need to slow down. In fact, we think the more I pour into it, the faster I go, the better I'm going to be. And it's like, oh, when we get into a turbulent storm in an airplane, thank god the pilot doesn't accelerate more. Okay. they slow down. Yes. Yeah, right.

Felipe Engineer  44:51  
So coming at least try to fly around the storm or, you know, somebody else on the ground just running we run into burning buildings away. 

Stephanie Roldan  45:01  
But you know what it's driven out of some of our cultural beliefs of being Superman, the hero, the firefighter, how many people praise themselves on being like, oh, man, they called me in because this was all messed up and I fixed it all. Oh, man, you've made a career on being a firefighter in construction. That's not actually the job.

Felipe Engineer  45:22  
That's not actually the job. It's not sustainable. Yeah, actually talking to somebody today. And she was saying that her dad is a senior superintendent, and his only job is to go in and rescue projects. Her words, exact, quote, rescue projects.

Stephanie Roldan  45:39  
It's I mean, people who rescue projects make a good living for money they do. But they can't be the way moving forward. Right? And here's the reason why I say can't be the way moving forward. Because I am the I Am the old millennial, right? Like, I'm at the top bracket of this thing. 

Felipe Engineer  45:58  
And I'm older than you. So I'm not a millennial.

Stephanie Roldan  46:02  
Okay, but just but I don't, I don't like working in that environment. Right. And I think the more and more generations, we get deep, they don't like working in that environment, either, Felipe. 

Felipe Engineer  46:12  
I just saw the stats, because that's the nerd that I am the millennials, Gen Y are now the majority. Yes, we are construction.

Stephanie Roldan  46:20  
We're coming for you. We're coming for collaboration, teamwork. And a better way to do this, right? Here's the crazy thing about it, Philippe, is that when you really get down to it, even the boomers and Gen X, you guys want to work that way too. But something in you will just not admit it. I don't know what it is. Whether it's to sound weak, like the snowflakes or whatever else. You don't think you're gonna talk about us millennials. Know what you want it to.

Felipe Engineer  46:53  
I don't speak for all of Gen X, but I'll speak for myself. I want the collaboration to Yeah. You.

Stephanie Roldan  46:59  
I mean, I tell people all the time. Our core values are sort of meant to be loving action. And the truth is, we were too afraid to probably say we love. Yeah, right? We went with we care. And it's true. We do care. But if you looked at what the actions really are, for most people that say we care, it's really actually love Philippe, I believe you. Yeah.

Felipe Engineer  47:29  
We spend more time at work than we do with our families. Most of us.

I'm guilty of that myself. And you have to really, to stay in it. You got to come at it from your heart. Not from your mind.

Stephanie Roldan  47:45  
Yeah, my daughter caught me the other day, I think I was in this room, which is half off his half workout room. So sometimes I look over there feel guilty. I haven't stepped on that treadmill in a while. But she came in the room. Obviously, I wasn't working out at the time. And she said, Why are you still working? And I said, Because work to me at this point in my career is like playing video games to you. 

I love it. I love it. It doesn't even believe it. It doesn't even feel like work anymore. The amount of discretionary effort I put in to the projects I have on my plate. Most people would go she works an 80 Hour Work Week. I don't, I work the work week, it's necessary to pour the love and passion that I have for my work into my work. That's it should be Yeah. And if my kids told me, Hey, Mom, I'm finally going to be on Fortnite Do you want to play? I would get up for my work and go and play. But, you know, they're building worlds and destroying stuff. And you know, I don't even know running around and doing whatever they do. Right. 

Felipe Engineer  48:55  
So breakdancing, too.

Stephanie Roldan  48:56  
Yeah, exactly.

Felipe Engineer  48:58  
That game has it all.

Stephanie Roldan  48:59  
It has everything that has, it has concerts, it's got action, it's got teamwork. But here's the thing, I look at it and I go well, that's where their friends exist. Right? It's different. Yeah, the friends don't exist running outside, down, down and up and down the block riding a bicycle and doing all of that all the friends their friends exist virtually. And when they plug in and their headsets on and they're shouting all kinds of weird commands to each other. 

Felipe Engineer  49:27  
It's all their best friends inthem all I hear from my son is give me that med kit like dude, you're dying every day boy. Why you got to be the one that's you're always the one on the team dying every day. Every day. Here's someone calling for a med kit in my house.

Stephanie Roldan  49:41  
Oh, shoot. Yeah, but but right. It's it's different for how they develop their relationships and their developing relationships virtually. They're finding ways to do teamwork and collaboration. It's it's just the way it is now.

Felipe Engineer  49:55  
It's just like what happened to us to as adults when COVID hit many companies and constructions It's impossible for people to work from home even part time, even sometimes not even like two hours. If you weren't in the trailer, or in the field, you're not working, obviously, if you're installing equipment, right, you have to be there to put it in. That's just the nature of reality. But for a lot of the other things that the planning part, some of the, the, you know, the management aspects of it can be done from virtually anywhere.

Stephanie Roldan  50:26  
Yep. You know, it's interesting, Philippe, because, um, you know, I have a talent profile that doesn't mind change, generally speaking, as long as it aligns with where I want to go. And the future that I see, right, which is people appreciated for the work that they do. So we made a pretty quick pivot and, and, you know, I'm a member of the training department, to getting our training online and virtual, and, and we had just a serious spike, and we've had a spike ever since, right? People just retooling. How do I? How do I manage virtually How do I have a presence? When I'm on the camera, all of those things, right, just through the roof for the training levels? Right. I think that helps people sort of get into the way we the the, you know, the IT department quickly was like WebEx training, WebEx training, WebEx training, right to show you how the tools work. So we went right to training right out of the gate, like, how do you pivot? and train? Right, so we went straight to a solid base of training people? And then we started thinking, Okay, so how do you effectively do your work? it? I mean, it was the, I mean, I hate to say, Well, here's the thing, don't waste a great crisis, right? It's the morning, it's the burning platform, right? The need to improve had to really be internal, right, you really had to want to improve, now, you don't have a choice, you have to get better at how you plan your work. Because the whole team's not there. You have to be better at how you manage the release of materials, the communications, all of those things, right, you have to be much more intentional and better at how you're doing that stuff. So this is really just a culmination. And and the next, then I'll sort of start the commencement of the next part of it for us with regards to lien. So we built a nice little base about, you know, this is coming, hey, here's the signals, and now we're doing that deep work. And people finding out that, yeah, it's, it's real, and we've got to do it. And, you know, most of our office teams are not in the office there, you know, remote from wherever they are more finding better ways to virtually walk the job using technology. You know.

Felipe Engineer  52:34  
These are almost the same size to our CEOs doing a webinar just this week, and he still said about 1000 of us are working remote still.

Stephanie Roldan  52:43  
Yeah, I mean, we're not we're not in any rush to come back to the office or come back to the trailers. And a lot of that is because, to be honest, some of the geographic areas in which we do business, we're not on a we're not anywhere near like, the downslope towards low numbers, right? We're in Texas, or in Arizona, or, you know, we got California climbing again. So it's not worth it's not worth the risk, right? There's, if you can find better ways, why risk it.

Felipe Engineer  53:15  
If you can still be effective, if you can meet the goal, just meet the goal.

Stephanie Roldan  53:21  
Felipe, it's about now have enough to change the way that we measure things we need to measure outcome and results. It's not measuring butts in the seats.

Felipe Engineer  53:30  
No time time on tools doesn't work for leadership. It's not a good metric. It's never a good metric for tools.

Stephanie Roldan  53:38  
It's not to say that.

Felipe Engineer  53:42  
It's one of those things that people throw out all the time. Yeah, I know, you got to hear it. Like you probably are career

Stephanie Roldan  53:48  
I do. But I could be out of time on the tool, screwing a whole bunch of stuff up. And it does. It's not really adding value. Right. So but yeah, it now requires that we really look at what is value creation. Right? That's right.

Felipe Engineer  54:00  
So it's asking this question. I mean, just like when you you, you looked at your values as an organization and for being, you know, a person on the front line installing work and saying these values don't seem they seem to be silent on something. And people in your organization that says a lot about your leadership to said, Hey, wait a minute. stuff is right or Stephanie? Stephanie is right. This doesn't align with how what our real values are, and they made the shift. They pivoted.

Stephanie Roldan  54:29  
You know how I really picked up in this organization. We had this thing called the Ask the CEO. Okay. And it was it was meant to be an inbox, you could ask a question, send it in the CEO would answer it via a video blog. Right. And the question I asked was, you wrote a blog, and this was like a written blog. You wrote a blog, you know, two months ago, talked about the 20 mile March. Then this last month, you you alluded to it again, Um, I've been here for a long time. I don't know what the 20 mile mark for this company is. Wow. And yeah. And, and that question triggered. What? How does anyone know?

Felipe Engineer  55:15  
Yeah, Where is it?

Stephanie Roldan  55:16  
Where is it? Right? Yep. And if you were to ask me today fully back, what were the old core values? What was the old mission? And what was the old purpose? I couldn't tell you about three words that I believe was part of the mission statement that said something like, we do something with the industry standards.

Well lead them. I don't know if something improve on them Excel? I don't know. Something around that. Right. So I who memorize a lot of things occasionally, right, so that I can recite them later. Yeah. If I can't do that, Felipe, how does everyone else?  They can't.

Felipe Engineer  56:02  
If you can't find it or see it, you have no chance of it being there?

Stephanie Roldan  56:06  
That's right. That's right. There's no way that you know, if one they can't quickly recall or see it, then there's no way for them to know. And more importantly than that is, we should really be looking for the behaviors that align with that. Right? So even if even if you don't have a great memory, and you never remember all five of them, which they are relatively easy now to remember. I'm just interested in whether or not your behaviors aligned to them.

Felipe Engineer  56:37  
Well, I remember him because you gave me the trick, the pattern, the pattern is respect for people continuous improvement. Yes, I don't need to remember the three and the two. Right? I know there are three and two. But it's really just those two. And our values in our company is similar. We have three and I always tell people like I don't need the other two. The first one is all I need. It covers it all.

Stephanie Roldan  57:01  
And truthfully, we care covers all of them to really pay for us. You care. If you care, then you'll be willing to share something with someone else when you when they need it. You'll listen to them to you'll help them innovate. And you'll help them excel. And you'll help the company innovate if you really care.

Felipe Engineer  57:20  
Absolutely. I want to ask you a question that I get asked by superintendents all the time, when they're going to try something collaborative with pool planning. You've been there you've had that experience with that. Very, that that special client that took you on a journey as a trust us it's going to be better. And it was and you got the big fat check to prove it. Yeah, I've heard this and I've got my answer, but I want to hear it straight from you. When you're when you or your crews are asked by general contractor to come to a pull planning meeting. What's your knee jerk reaction? Don't think too hard? Just give me your knee jerk.

Stephanie Roldan  57:57  
So my knee jerk reaction is I always ask which general contractor asked us? That's my first one. All honesty? That's the first question I asked. Because here's the thing is, depending on who it is, is depending on the preparation I need to put into my team. Okay. And and the reason why I say that, too, is because this one bad experience will take me back on the progress that we're making here in the company. And so if I really believe that what I say people know that I'm speaking the truth. And so when people borrow my relational capital, right, my truth, yes, I need to make sure that people are prepared for what really will occur. Okay. And so depending on who the general contractor is the team that's named if I know the people, if, if I know that they're sending in their professional similar to me, right, like is going to be in the room, I might prep for, hey, you know, Philippe's a great guy, he's doing the hard work like we are, his team's a little bit inexperienced, it's only their second time, it might fall apart, because the superintendents new and he's not going to know how to navigate every stage in there. So you guys are going to be learning together. By the way, you're really strong. So I depend on you to help him along the way. Or we're weak too. And so we're gonna struggle along with it. But don't give up because you're gonna get one bad taste in your mouth and say, it never works. Okay, because there's cases of it works. But this time might be a little bit rough. 

Felipe Engineer  59:24  
No, no, that was a beautiful answer.

Stephanie Roldan  59:28  
Right.

Felipe Engineer  59:29  
We get we get pushback from superintendents saying that we don't think the trades are gonna want to participate in this. And my answer to them is always it's going to be the most money that they ever made with the least amount of effort. And all of their experienced ever. If when you do it as a when you do it. But if you don't do it if you do all a cart, like if I just go into a corner and put a bunch of sticky notes on the wall that's exactly matches my critical path method schedule. Then I just tell you to Get the stuff that I put up there, I'm clearly not doing a collaborative type of anything. Right, and that's not going to work.

Stephanie Roldan  1:00:09  
The other cart really kills the momentum for lead bait with those with the 1000s of people who are really the really the people invested in construction, right. So here's what I, here's what I sometimes think we forget, I think we forget when we're using and talking about these tools and doing all of this, that it's not us who are from the project management side, or from the academic side, or from any of these other people that say that this is theoretically going to work, that are going to work with this tool. Okay. And there are hundreds of foremen. In our case, right? In my case, in particular, I hundreds of foreman within rosendin. And there are probably, you know, hundreds of Jeff's. And when they get a bad taste in their mouth, guess who they're talking to this about? They're talking to this with the 40,000 people that we have in our organization that do the actual physical work. And so if I'm talking about whose minds Do I need to change? Who do I have to encourage to want to be collaborative and do team working and all of these things, it's 4000. People believe, that I have to be aware of, and that need to be educated and that have to have an interest in this and that have to be listened to and that need to be respected. And that, you know, it be looked at as artisans and craftsmen and women, right? Like, that's who we're really talking about here.

Felipe Engineer  1:01:39  
Right? I was in a little job and like nowheresville in the middle of the country. And we're doing a session like this with a brand new team that never heard of it. And at the beginning, I asked by show of hands, this is all foreman, you know, various trades, there were 1212 trades, but show hands, Who's heard of this type of planning method loss binder system, nobody put their hand up. We went through the exercise with that team. And the demolition contractor brought his CEO to the trailer The next day, to show him what we did. Because he said he has never seen anything like this as an entire career. And this guy was probably high 50s, if not 60 years old, the foreman. And he says the first time he's ever seen it, he was so blown away of how well it worked. And every I mean, people were skeptical. They were they were guaranteed they were they were so skeptical. And then when they did it, you know, we did the calculation at the end. And we said you guys invested three hours. Thank you. You've talked to each other, right, we get out of the way real fast. I think your approach is the same as mine. Yeah. And and I think they took it at that time, they pulled three weeks off of the schedule. And by the time the job finished fast forward, the job finished a month early. So the three weeks that they pulled off there stayed, they finished a month early. And everybody made money. And it was and they all would love to work with each other again, I think that is like a massive testament to that. And that's what I was telling superintendents that story like, here's a job where nobody had heard of this ever. Right. And they all said at the end of it, that they'd love to work with each other again, in a heartbeat. They would call each other and talk to each other. And our superintendent didn't lose any power control. He still guided the whole thing. And there was an assistant superintendent, she still guided the whole thing. Or they worked together. Yep, there was no resistance I was I keep telling people, I don't see any resistance from the trades to collaborate. I've never seen it I've I've gone to places and stuff to the other side of that coin. Let's flip that coin over. Yep. And I'm asking a group. Here's a bigger a little bit bigger group. Has anyone ever heard of or used this method? Last planner and one drywall contractor put his hand up? And said, Yeah, and it was a bad experience. So then, because I heard that he knew that I made sure to continuously ask them questions like, Is this what you saw? Is this like what your experience was? And they ended up telling me that you out of the five major steps of conversations, they only did one? Right? And but the one thing that they did put a real bad taste in everybody's mouth. And it could have been a poison pill situation where everyone's going to push away from the table and not eat with us.

Stephanie Roldan  1:04:31  
Yeah, yeah, no, I I also encourage our teams, you know, for the superintendents in the the gf that are a little bit more advanced ballybay to even just offer it to their project team. And and the reason why I say that is because, you know, we'll meet owners who've never heard of it. Right. We'll meet general contractors and smaller parts of America, like you said, right. not exposed to it, haven't seen it. We don't mind leading that effort. If you want to support it, and so we've done that in a couple different places where, you know, it wasn't necessarily a very large project, but we needed to get to a place where we were collaborative, we were moving together and that we intentionally met the schedule. Right. And so helping the teams along I think is important. I think that's the other key component to it is, you and I both talked about this, right is every company is sort of at this different level of understanding and learning. And every business unit is at a different level of understanding and learning, right? And so having a conversation very early on, like, Hey, we're relatively skilled at pool planning as a subcontractor, and you're bringing a relatively green team, we don't mind helping and leading so if there's some parts of this, that you want us to help you with own do something right. But that that that conversation has to happen, and there has to be some humility, around skill set. And that is what I don't think happens right? When I'm in control.

Felipe Engineer  1:05:59  
I'm the GC, you do what I say. Right? Yep. That's what we got to overcome, because people think and, and not because they're egomaniacs, because the whole system that they're in promotes that you've got to be in control the controlling contractor, and there's a lot of liability that we have as being the controlling contractor. They have a lot of responsibility. Yep. So it's hard sometimes to offload some of that responsibility to somebody that, like yours, like yourself, you know, organization like yours. And that's offered help I've heard from, you know, not even just in your trade, other scopes of work have said, we offered your team to try this. Yeah. Can you help bridge that conversation? Because we don't have that relationship? And that takes time. You have to be intentional, like you said.

Stephanie Roldan  1:06:45  
Yeah, absolutely.

Felipe Engineer  1:06:46  
We try to get people to say, let's go look at it. When I get down to a job and maybe do the same thing. I spent some time looking at the actual job, and the conditions that people have to work in. And then with that in mind, the conversations in the trailer we're planning are way different. Yep. And I don't take every job like they're all the same. I never come with like a checklist. You're never gonna see me roll up in a checklist and be like, Oh, we just do these 12 steps, then we're gonna be there.

Stephanie Roldan  1:07:13  
I worked. I don't I don't checklist at either. fleabay you're right on the money with that walking the job situation, right. We call it gamba, in in lean, right? Some people do. Yeah. Only the nerds said not me. Yeah. No, but but you know what I mean, it has a term for it. But generally speaking, we call it job walks. But here's the thing is you have to be intentional about how you walk a job, because I'll be honest, we've been walking jobs forever in construction, right? Wherever, for ever, but it's the questions that you're looking for. It's what are you hoping to do? Not the Why are this or the Why Why? Why are you not? Right? It's not about them? Why aren't you done? Why aren't you done? Why aren't you making your numbers? You know, all of those normal questions we ask, right? Why questions are important. Don't get me wrong, right? Five why's is in legitimate tool. But we need to go out there really looking for how are we going to help them? Right? And, you know, here's the thing, most times it's not a people failure, it's a process failure, and it's somewhere else. And the truth is, is that some poor sucker, who we sent out there to go and sell something is the one left holding the bag with every single defect that came down our value stream going, Well, this is what I got. Plus, I gotta get eight hours worth of work done. How's that ever gonna work? It's impossible. Impossible. Impossible. But, hey, that's why you and I are here.

Felipe Engineer  1:08:48  
And I was gonna tell you to the first time that we met, and I'll probably get the urine but I feel like it was. I feel like it was four and a half years ago, maybe almost five. And at the time, we were both you had more experience than I did. You are way ahead of me, because that's the power of books. Philippe, that's right. You were you were absolutely ahead of me. And I didn't know who you were at the time, we sat down by pure chance. And we started talking and I realized what your job was. I made a mental note. Get a sponge out of her everything you can, because she's probably seen everything you're gonna come across and face and more. And even right now listening to you talk, you've seen more than me. And I'm glad to count you as a friend to help guide me through through what I'm trying to do.

Stephanie Roldan  1:09:38  
Hey, I'm about sharing, Philippe and listen, I am so incredibly happy that our chance meeting turned into this lasting relationship that we have won because of what it's done for me personally. But But what I know you and I can do for the industry as a whole For, for what we can, what we can bring out of, you know, our hard work out of our energy out of our passion for transforming the way that we do work. And I really hope that in my lifetime, I start seeing this being an attractive career choice. The pay is here, Felipe, the innovation is here, the opportunity, the growth, everything is here, right what I just look at, you know, we happen to be a union contractor. But when you talk about women and men being paid fairly, our pay scale is, here's your title, here's what you get paid. So if you want to make 100% of what the male workers are making, it's here for you, right? It's powerful, but we're just not an attractive industry. For anyone right now. I mean, high suicide rates. Who wants that? Right? Nobody? Nobody confrontation old, old school confrontational ways of solving problems? Who wants that? Nobody, right? It just gots to get better. And I really think there's some other elements to Philippe just in. Let's start looking at why aren't we just getting the momentum towards prefabrication and modularization? The job sites are hard, right? But we don't ever think how in the world do we get more people out of jobs, and get them into fab shops, building the exact same things we're going to need on the thing and reducing the amount of time they're either in winter conditions when we're up north, there in summer conditions, when we're down here in the south. You know, all of those different things where it's like, if we can get better at planning our work, if we can look at the technology we have available, if we can get more towards manufacturing, and move, you know, the work towards the people instead of the people to the work, we can make some big strides in making this more attractive. To put the work in, we've got to do the work. There's not easy, there's no escape. There's no escape, we have a workforce shortage. And we're competing with some of the best tech companies in the world for talent, right? I mean, I even look at it with my my young daughter, right? She's 12 years old now. Right? She's my oldest. And when she tells me the premier employers that she'd like to work for it's always Apple, Google, Facebook, Tik Tok, something in that world, right. And here's the truth. I see her over there gaming. I see her over there doing 3d models of things that she's going to tinker around and have, you know, spit out of the 3d printer. All things we do in construction, and we're not even a thought in her mind. You know why she's not we're not a thought in her mind. Because I'm not doing the work to educate her. And I've spent, I've been very intentional over the last two years, Philippe saying, you want an engineering career, you want to be in mathematics, you're stem driven. We have opportunities. We have opportunities.

Felipe Engineer  1:13:02  
Or just even I mean, how many parents do we have? I'm guilty of this too Steph. When when my son was born, and people had asked me like, oh, would you like your son to grow up to be? My answer was anything but construction. Because that's what I worked on. Yeah. And I said that for probably until he was like five years old. And then something started happening. I started thinking, no, it'd be good for him to work in this. Yeah, it'd be really good. And now he's very interested in what I do.

Stephanie Roldan  1:13:33  
It's what I do to deliver I, I mean, I've gotten her involved probably over the last. So probably was the last two or three years, I can't remember when our Aesop hit 25 years, but around there, we had like a contest about, like making, like a little sign with the 25. And the logo, and the kids could all get in that, right. And she wrote, she made a really good one. And ultimately, I saved it, it's in my closet, right? And talking about the culture that we have here, right. And then we had bring your kids to work day, and I worked here locally with the Arizona office to to give them an exposure to our corporate BIM is located here, right. So here's what we're using for 3d modeling. And here's some of the stuff that we print out. And here's our technology. And oh, by the way, then, we have a trainer here who teaches the actual hand skills and my daughter's in the back, right, and they do the whole presentation. And she goes, uh, what's that? And she points over to a pipe bender Lee Bay. Yeah. And I go, it's a pipe bender. She's like, how does it work? And I go, when you take one of these sticks of pipe and I pull a stick a stick off the rack there, and then go, you put it here and I go in it, you have to have a distance from the front of the shoe because you know, you can't kick it right on the end, because you're not gonna have enough, you're not gonna have enough yet to be able to pull that one off, right? So I'm put about 12 years old, right? And not only that, but had been very long time since I bend a piece of pipe it so I was like, I don't wanna embarrass myself in front of my child. So I better Pull it back here. So I got some something here for, you know, to be a handle and get some momentum. I'm talking real talk here, rightfully bation. You know, 18 or so years since I've had tools in my hands, right, that's a long time. I know, right? Or something like that. No. No.

Felipe Engineer  1:15:16  
It's a shirt today, you should have had a white collared shirt on.

Stephanie Roldan  1:15:19  
You're probably right. So no, it's probably my been with 16 years, at least because I've been with Roseanne. So it's been 16 years since I told him my hand, right? And I put it on there and I go, here's how you do it. Here's the foot pedal, push down, get a little momentum. She couldn't get the first push. So I was like, hey, let me let me get the first push. Luckily, I was good enough to get the first question. I said, Okay, work it. And so she, she bent it, and I gave it to her. And, you know, everyone's joking around the office like, she's actually probably better than you are. Right, which I'll take it whatever. Yeah, you know, you're razzing me when you can. But that exposure, rightfully, they wouldn't have happened if we hadn't been intentional about bring your kid to Work Day, where we hadn't got them in the shop, saying that we, you know, we do labels in the back warehouse that we run a large warehouse that back, here's we have a training center. Oh, by the way, we have 3d modeling. Right. So now she's like, This company has a lot of things happening. Right. Right. And, and she's right. And, you know, when you start looking at, you know, diversity and inclusion, right, I wasn't, I wasn't doing my job to say, hey, you could probably be here. In fact, I had, I had just summarily excluded or no, you're you're my child, rightfully. But you're my child, you don't come here. Right. And it's like, why we do have a lot of great things to offer here.

Felipe Engineer  1:16:39  
We forget how much influence we really have to make it an outstanding industry. 

Stephanie Roldan  1:16:44  
Yes, yes. And it's interesting. You say that, right. So we just recently started our, our diversity and inclusion Advisory Council, right, a council that's advising our executive team, on, you know, sort of the different perspectives that, you know, diversity brings one organization to make sure that we're moving towards belonging. Right, right. And so I mentioned this to my daughter, she's like, hey, what have you been working on? And I mentioned, Hey, I got a couple things on this. And this is what's new, because she's, she knows I'm drawn to those new things. So she's like, What's new? And I tell her, I'm working on this, I'm getting, you know, some Advisory Council from some really great other people in the in the organization, you know, our organization and outside of our organization, right. And so she says to me, I go, do you know what diversity inclusion is? And she said, yeah, it's where everyone feels like, they belong, but more important, they do belong, man. And I said, Oh, by a 12 year old, and I go, that's really what it is. And she looks at me and says, this Philippe, is it Rosen it in already that way. And here's the thing, it's because the influence, I provide the ability for her to go with me where I'm going and see the position I'm in today gives her the vision that she too could be there. Right? Right. And that was when I thought, that's what the focus needs to be on. Right? I forget all the rest. You know, you can make all the grand statements you want, but it needs to be in the work that we do, really moving in, including and creating belonging for people who have a different lived experience. And I and it's powerful, right, because she she went with me to UT girls day, we sponsored an activity there with an I'll plug it down, they were fantastic. We co ponsart we co co sponsored this, this activity where we taught young women and children how to build light fixtures, and they bring in UT girls day brings in roughly 8000, you know, children, predominantly young girls, it's a ton. It's all over the entire campus, right? predominantly young girls, but you'll see young boys also coming there to learn. And the activities are, you know, age bracket, and so you can sort of flow through in and out, right. But when I look back at that day, it was a group of women professionals from JE Dunn and rosendin. All of us had, you could see the diversity in us, right? We had black woman professional, we had Asian woman professional, I was there. And so in my daughter's mind the efforts that I do already here, right? already here. So now let's capitalize on how do we get more people here and I think if we can get the right message and people know where we are, and frankly The truth is, is they might not even know who rosendin is period because I don't know how many stories I've heard phillipa where I go in other parts of the country and they go Rosen then Who are you guys? We've been like a really great kept secret for 100 years. And so maybe that might be part of the problem is like, we actually need to stop trying to be the best kept secret in town. But the secret's out, right, we got to get the secret out and say, Come here, we've got you, this is the place to be. Right. We want you to be here. This is this is the employer of choice, right?

Felipe Engineer  1:20:22  
So yes, Steph I could talk to you all day.

Stephanie Roldan  1:20:26  
I know. Our time's coming to an end here, Felipe.

Felipe Engineer  1:20:29  
it is coming to an end, it's time to switch gears and move along my Scrum board. But I've had a blast talking to you, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your, your thoughts and experiences.

Stephanie Roldan  1:20:42  
Oh, thank you for so much for having me. Thank you for doing the good work, being there. You know, being my friend, being a professional advisor, all of those things, right? Because it's super important for all of us have mentors, coaches, coaches, cheerleaders, all of that stuff in your life. So thank you for being that for me.

Felipe Engineer  1:21:02  
You're welcome. I feel the same way about you. It goes both ways. Awesome. You're like a rock for me. I can always count on you to keep me straight. Keep my feet on the ground.

Stephanie Roldan  1:21:12  
Somebody's got to do it, Felipe. Yeah, I mean, and I got nominated. So it's been apparent to be.

Felipe Engineer  1:21:18  
You make the job look so easy Steph. Yeah.

Stephanie Roldan  1:21:21  
But I do sincerely thank you, Felipe. I love you. Take care be safe.

Felipe Engineer  1:21:27  
Likewise.

Stephanie Roldan  1:21:28  
And continued success here with your podcast,

Felipe Engineer  1:21:30  
Right here. Always. Alright. Awesome. All right. Bye.

Very special thanks to my guest. I'm Felipe Engineer Manriquez. The EBFC show is created by Felipe and produced by a passion to build easier and better. Thanks for listening. Stay safe, everybody. Let's go build!